LFMM 013 Transcript: Interview with Madhu Singh

Click here to go to the show notes from episode 13

 

Christopher Small:      Hello and welcome to episode 13 of the Law Firm Marketing Mastery podcast. I’m Christopher Small, your host, and I am here to help you make more money, get more clients, step by step.

This is an important episode of the Law Firm Marketing Mastery podcast because it is my first ever interview!

I hope to do many more as this podcast goes along, but you’ve got to start somewhere and this is my first.

I want to introduce Madhu Singh, a lawyer here in Seattle. She is the owner of MK Singh Law Firm and I know her both professionally and personally, as we both went to the University of Kansas law school.

We didn’t go to school together, she is a couple years younger than me, but I met her out here at a couple of events and when I was thinking of someone to interview, I knew that she would be the perfect person for a couple reasons.

First, she has opened her law firm and she’s successful.

And second, because she does something that is not criminal defense, not something that I do.

So I thought that was important to get someone on here that is doing something that’s not in my practice area. And she is in business law.

So, without further ado, please enjoy this interview!

But, before we go on, I’ve actually got to point out one thing.

The interview actually lasted about an hour long, and you’re going to notice when you listen to this that it was only about a half an hour. That’s because I had some technical difficulties when we did the interview so the sound cuts out at about half hour into it, and I didn’t know it until we were done.

But I thought the content was good enough for that first half hour that I wanted to make sure that you all had a chance to see it.

So, enjoy, and I promise to fix the technical difficulties for the next time.

And, once again, if you have any questions or anything, you can visit lawfirmmarketingmastery.com and say “Hi” and ask a question.

Thanks.

Enjoy.

Christopher Small:   Hi. Let’s just start, why don’t you just tell us, tell me a little bit about you, give me your background, just generally.

Madhu Singh:              Okay. Well, my name is Madhu and I am a solo practitioner. I have a law firm called MK Singh Office that I started a little over 3 years ago. It’s been a really great experience so far and I really enjoy working for myself and having my own practice and kind of setting the tone of how I want to practice law and work with my clients and things like that.

I primarily focus on working with other entrepreneurs, start-ups, and small businesses. I say other entrepreneurs on purpose because I like to think of myself as an entrepreneur, as a business owner that just happens to have a legal practice, and not so much as just a lawyer who’s in a law practice.

That kind of frame set helps me work better with my clients because I work with a lot of business owners who feel that way about their business, so it makes for interesting conversation both on the business and the other perspective when advising certain types of clients.

Christopher Small:      Okay. Let me ask you the most important question of the day so far. Where did you go to law school?

Madhu Singh:              I went to law school at the University of Kansas.

Christopher Small:      That’s right. That alone makes you a fantastic attorney, like right off the bat, right?

Madhu Singh:              What’s interesting about that, what you and I share, and that we didn’t go to law school here is that we came to the Seattle area without really having a network here per say. Aside from maybe a few contacts here and there through whatever. Your friends, family, alumni association, whatever.

But the true context that you need to run a business only comes through your efforts and you are putting yourself out there and interacting and meeting people that you realize are necessary to build your practice and that you need to know to really be like a success business owner.

And so I, at certain times I think it was easier to come out to a state where I didn’t know anybody and I just put myself out there, and sometimes it’s harder because, again, you’re so alone until you start making contacts and building your own network and you don’t have like the instant network that you get from going to law school out here.

Christopher Small:      Right. Totally. Yeah, I only knew like 10 people literally when I got out here. It was crazy. But, you’re right, it does make you get out there and do something.

Madhu Singh:              Exactly, because you don’t know anyone so all you can do is get out there and start meeting people and volunteering and you know, setting up organizations and just putting yourself out there. So what you want to do.

Christopher Small:      Okay so this podcast, this blog, everything is about starting and marketing a law firm. So tell me, tell us about kind of the background, how did you decide to open your own law firm? Did you start at law school? Take us down that road.

Madhu Singh:              Well, I did my law degree and MBA at KU and I moved out here and immediately just started studying for the Bar exam. And while I was studying for the Bar exam I was trying to network with a few attorneys that I was introduced to through alumni’s and other people that I knew out here, and what I was finding was basically the best approach was to kind of consider contract work, and do some contracting and see kind if that could turn into anything.

So I started off after I passed the Bar doing a little bit of contract work with an attorney that actually another KU alumni had introduced me to – it was Bob Johnson. And he was in the market for a business attorney, and I was like: “Okay, this is great, I’ll, you know, do some contract work for them and see how it goes”.

Ultimately we decided to start working together more in an of council capacity and so we had a relationship that lawyers call “eat what you can kill.”

Basically, if you brought in business, took a cut of that, whatever it is.

But what I was realizing is I was bringing in more work on my own than they were giving me, so I almost felt like I was paying someone to let me work for them.

It didn’t really suit my needs or whatever. But although that was not the best relationship it gave me the confidence I needed to kind of get out there and be like “I can do this for myself. I can do it with my own name. I don’t need someone else’s name behind me to get things going.”

Christopher Small:      Sure.

Madhu Singh:              I had maybe 2 clients that I was able to take with me from that relationship and I just started building from there. I told them what I was doing, I asked them to make introductions if they knew anybody that would be good for me that I just started networking, and I was going to them like 5 or 6 times a week.

‘Cause in this town there is something going on for breakfast, lunch, afternoon, everything. And so I was just kind of going out there talking about what I wanted to do, talking about business, talking about business law and intellectual property and just, you know, meeting people, meeting a lot of people like what I would think of as myself, who were getting started, and helping strategies and packages to work with them. I always tried to make it more sustainable.

I started working with larger companies and kind of finding my niche areas that I really felt that I could stand out on. And one of those was social media. Social media, as you know, became pretty popular the last couple of years and so I started talking about like the legal part of the social media and I …

Christopher Small:      Okay, hold on, time out, time out. What’s your twitter handle? What’s your Facebook? Information?

Madhu Singh:              @MKSinghLaw, it’s mksinghlaw.com. My Facebook page is the same www.facebook/mksinghlaw and so there is my blog and website.

Christopher Small:      All right, so let’s back up cause I want to talk a little bit about, a little bit more about the decision to you know, at some point you had to say: “All right, so I’m going to do this. I want to go out, want to do my own thing.”

Tell me, where you afraid of that?

Madhu Singh:              Yeah. I was a little nervous, because I thought, I was like: “How am I going to do this?”

You think being a young attorney you need to have some like senior attorney backing you or verifying what you are doing, but what I realized is that you could kind of get that same feeling from mentors. So you take the time to get to know other attorneys so if you ever feel stuck that you can kind of talk out the situation with them. That was kind of key to keeping your confidence level.

And think about law school, it teaches you to be resourceful so you know how to look up information and figure things out. So how you deliver that is on you.

And so, what I would do is like, I spend a lot of time trying to find good mentors and people I knew that I could trust and who will be willing to support me if I had any questions. And so it’s almost like, it was like my backup team, like if I ever had any problems I usually had someone to talk to, not even so much for the answer but more for just the talk out of the situation like you might in a law firm with your colleagues and things like that.

So definitely it helped my confidence level and initially I noticed a lot of people – they waver, they like start, they pick up a few clients and then a job offer pops up and they just leave.

And, I will admit, the first like two months I kind of felt that way, but then it was like, probably like the beginning of the third month and a lot of activity was happening and I was getting really excited because I was starting to get my website, looking at my website options, my branding options, I was like: “I really enjoy this, I loved this. And either I’m going to be all in or half in and try to find a job. And so I was all in.

Christopher Small:      Right, that’s right. When I talk to people that’s one of the first things I tell them. I say “look, you’ve got to, even if it just going to be six months or whatever, you’ve got to just go after it for a certain amount of time. You can’t just dip your toe in. You’ve got to actually jump in the water.”

You know?

Madhu Singh:              ‘Cause it’s a little bit of an investment like you need to get malpractice insurance, and you need to like, take your own precautions, your ethical obligations and all that.

But, you know, it works for some people and it doesn’t work for others. The number one thing that I generally hear form solos who don’t, who just cut and go out and get started because they have nothing else really on the horizon is they don’t realize how hard it is, how much improvement stuff in involved. Like they’re unprepared to go outside, they just want to do legal.

Christopher Small:      Right.

Madhu Singh:              And actually, why I struggle in hiring anyone is because everybody just wants the legal part. Right? Because I have quite a range of attorneys available, which is great, but that just still means I’m the only one doing business development for the firm.

Christopher Small:      Right. Although I will tell you that, you know, there is, there can be some good in that for you, because if you can find someone that can do legal work great than you can do all of the business stuff.

Madhu Singh:              Yeah, exactly, that’s pretty much the model that I’ve set up. But it would be nice to have like extensions of you willing to do things when you can’t go to everything.

Christopher Small:      I agree with you completely and we talked a little bit about the associate that I had, that didn’t work out, and that was kind of one of the things that kind of crawled under my skin.

He wasn’t as an interested and kind of the business development side as I was, and it sucked. But those people are hard to find too, though, you know? It takes getting into that thing sometimes before you realize how much fun owning a law firm can be. From the outside it just seems super scary, one you’re in it you realize “of, you get to do all of this other cool stuff.”

Madhu Singh:              And I think that comes more naturally when it’s yours, ‘cause it’s easier to talk about something that you feel passionate about, and I can understand why it might be hard to do that for someone else, but that doesn’t mean all this big law firms, their partners who are not named partners aren’t out there, marketing their firms…

Christopher Small:      Right.

Madhu Singh:              Therefore the concept is there, but that’s generally why I always had contract attorneys, it’s basically because I know they’re not ready to do more than just the legal work.

Christopher Small:      Sure. Okay, let’s talk about… your firm is open, what, did you have a marketing plan?

How, you know you talked a lot about going to networking events and doing things like that, but I want to dive in a little bit deeper, to what you did.

Did you have a system? Did you follow up? Did you decide who you wanted to meet with before you’d get to these events? That kind of stuff.

What’s your, what was your thought process going into like a networking event for example?

Madhu Singh:              Right. Well the thing was, I know it’s very important to define your ideal client, and so while I was doing basically market research to find that ideal client, I was going to events, like, I would go to a meet-up event, or I would go to a chamber commerce event, or I would find something industry specific like technology and just kind of see what I enjoyed at the event, ‘cause it’s usually, if I feel like if I at least learning something, or met somebody interesting, it really was worth going to.

Most events are, but some events, some organizations are just not the right fit. And you can kind of get a sense from it when you’re going, and so a lot of that I can almost equate to the beginning stages of market research when I kind of like went to everything for just the sake of it, to see…

I don’t know, I was reading a lot of different things, and I was thinking about what businesses others need to know and sort of blogging about those types of things, and that kind of helped me define who the target audience was for me, and the ideal client.

Then I kind of narrowed it down to certain organizations that I thought would be appropriate for me to belong to, and volunteered where I thought it made the most sense to do that, and then used those experiences to kind of define my marketing strategy.

Because it would be like, “Okay, I do like small businesses, but I don’t want to do like, mom and pop shops, but I want to work with business that are a little more established, and doing a lot more on terms of the legal, than doing a lot more stuff that involves contracts.”

And so, that would help. Then I was like: “Okay, I really like technology, and the social media thing, and the mobile space, and so I kind of started putting myself those types of events, talking about those things… And then it just kind of, almost like organically became the kind of the niche industry I wanted to be in.

People do just, what you might consider an everyday small business, the majority of my clientele now, because of my refined focus, that kept happening during this process, is really focused on more like technology and social media and, you know, emerging industries, types of companies and both from the start stage to the growth stage.

Not just like forming companies but actually working with companies long term as part of their grow strategies and doing the intellectual property work, and you know, then I eventually gravitated to creating a package of part time general consulting.

And that’s not what I did on day one, right away, it was a lot of that marketing, the strategy behind [Inaudible] target, and they’re going to industry events, you kind of learn what the speak is, and what people are talking about and that it gives your ideas for blogs, it gives you keywords to put on your website, for search, and then, rebranding is really important and I wanted people to feel like the person they met at the [inaudible].

And so it was really important to me that all of these streamline like you get the same, like you know, because I have seen something I am not, like the scales of Justice, I am not going to pretend to be something that I got I don’t want you to go to the [Inaudible] and seeing like the [Inaudible] of justice, because I’m not going to [Inaudible] something I’m not.

Christopher Small:      That’s something that sets you apart from everybody else too.

Madhu Singh:              What?

Christopher Small:      I said that’s something that sets you apart from everybody else too. That’s kind of that differentiating factor that you want to have.

Madhu Singh:              Exactly. [Inaudible] is intentional, and so whether it was strategic like you said, [Inaudible] So I knew that this things are important, I just I didn’t know, I could sit down and think about who I wanted to talk with, but by doing this it allowed me to define, figure out how strategy behind working with clients actually enjoyed working with.

Christopher Small:      Definitely.

Madhu Singh:              That got me, that made me want to do all this things. People always ask you, “how do you have time to do all this?” Well, you make time when you have an interest in things, you know? Like…

Christopher Small:      That’s right. Definitely. So how, let’s say how, you go to this networking events, how do you convert a contact into a client? Like what was that, what has that process been like for you?

Madhu Singh:              Well, it’s all really in the follow up, they say it takes like something like, I don’t know, the number varies, 15, 7, 20 touch points to turn a contact into a client. And so, at a minimum, it becomes kind of difficult when you go to a lot of these and do a lot of email follow up, and then it takes a lot of time to do a tone of coffee meetings and all of that kind of stuff.

And so I kind of became a little bit selective in who I met with, and so I added everybody on LinkedIn, so at a minimum it was that one touch point, and then other would be at the group, and then certain people I felt like I had a pretty good conversation with, like I made a little note that this is all we talked about, and then I would follow them via email, at least keep an email communication.

And sometimes where it made sense to kind of talk a little bit more we would have a coffee meeting.

In the beginning I went on probably to many coffee meetings ‘cause I was just like, you know, I wanted to talk to everybody, I wanted to know… but now I kind of preserve almost like a set number of hours a month where I’m willing to do that, and if you’re, it makes sense, then I’ll set it up and ‘cause, you know, not everybody can be your referral partner.

Christopher Small:      Sure.

Madhu Singh:              You don’t need 10 financial advisers in your pocket, those people love finding attorneys and working with them and today I have never had the need to go through a financial adviser.

Christopher Small:      Right.

Madhu Singh:              The only thing that I really wanted, that I knew I had a problem with, was an accountant… that took almost 3 years to find an accountant.

Christopher Small:      Was what? An accountant, yeah.

Madhu Singh:              Just because so much of what I do sometimes hinges on a tax question.

Christopher Small:      Right.

Madhu Singh:              You know, then you need like the insurance and those people are fine but then you also kind of want to put it out there into the world what you’re doing so people are kind of looking out for you and what kind of opportunities you’re looking for. That’s ultimately how I got the gig at Seattle University.

Christopher Small:      Right. Which is what I was going to ask you about. Actually, before we get there I want to ask you about another question that actually may or may not have affected you but is something that I know it kind of affected me when I started and it’s something that I’ve had asked of me several times on my blog, and that has to do with I guess the look of youth and also the kind of the feeling of inexperience that a lot of us have when we start.

And what I mean is how that translates to getting clients, and to kind of just being in front of people that you’re trying to sell to. Does that make sense?

Madhu Singh:              Right.

Christopher Small:      Did you encounter any of that and what did you do to get over that?

Madhu Singh:              Yeah, that actually happened quite a bit and it still happens even now. The thing about that is that once you get over the fact that you are not the right attorney for everybody it makes it a little bit easier.

‘Cause you will, as you refine who your target audience is and who you want to work with, it becomes much easier to answer that question and what I find is that when people are like: “Oh, you’re very young!” but at the same time your response is like: “That might be true but I’m also very innovative and ambitious, and I’m already working on things that your senior attorney hasn’t even thought about yet.”

And because of the industry that I’ve chosen to work in, it’s more acceptable to be working with someone like me vs. another attorney.

Several of my clients have switched to me because their attorney just cannot grasp what they do for a living. And that bothers them, and it’s really, I think that’s also part of kind of my marketing strategy to just know what’s going on and taking interest in my clients businesses to better understand what they are doing.

‘Cause it helps, it just makes you a better adviser to know what your client is even doing in their business.

And so that part… and it’s funny because to be honest with you it’s mostly younger attorneys that question my age and experience. It’s never like the business owner, because if you are confident in what you are saying and do good work you’re going to be fine.

Christopher Small:      Totally, totally agree. 100%.

Madhu Singh:              Be kind, and be like: “Okay, if you don’t think I’m the right person I have great referrals for you,” and just give them the referral, like you save your [Inaudible] relationship [Inaudible] then you might have a good referral for one of your merchants.

Christopher Small:      Right. Definitely. So I’m going to give you a little bit the chance to brag about this Seattle thing, which is pretty cool. So just tell us a little bit about it, but then also I want to know, and I think, I’m curious to know but I think other people would be curious to know too about how did you get that gig.

what did you do to become some star teacher at Seattle U all the sudden?

Madhu Singh:              The Seattle U gig is like, is one of the best networking stories I had because it just, it’s one of those things that I sometimes feel like when you put things out in the universe, like you actually, I’m a big believer of telling people what you are looking for ‘cause it makes it easier for them to know and to refer things to you.

So I was at a very small networking event, it was really probably 8 or 10 people. It was one, a new one, it was like Seattle professional executives, or something like that.

Somebody was starting and so I went and I met this lady who is just, I think she is an administrator at Seattle U and I told her, I was like: “You know, I have been looking to volunteer with entrepreneurship programs at Seattle U, but I am having trouble getting past just the application ending up in some pile, because they have a lot of online forms you fill out and you never hear back.

Christopher Small:      Yeah.

Madhu Singh:              I wanted to volunteer there because I know universities, like even KU had a great entrepreneurship center and those are great places to make contacts and volunteer and things like that.

So I just told her that and when she put me in touch with the director of the entrepreneurship clinic there I send them an email about what I was hoping to do and a little bit about my background and then he emailed professor W.H. Knight, who is now my colleague, and at the time he invited me to come have coffee with him and I kind of basically told him my story and my interests so that they could gauge whether I might be a good fit in their volunteer program.

So when I told him all of this he asked me to come to his class and do a session about social media marketing and give a course on that. I was like: “Okay, that sounds great.”

So I went and did the class, it went really well and I didn’t care for him after that, for like several months and then fast forward like seven months later he sends me this email asking if I’d be interested in either being a mentor, speaking in front of the clinic again or co-teaching it with him. And I almost like fell out of my chair, because I was like “how can someone like this even think that way of me,” ‘cause he is a long standing law professor, he is a former dean of the law school.

Is like such an honor and so I went in for the interview and he immediately selected me ‘cause he really wanted, he told me he really wanted someone who he thought could relate to the students, someone who really cared about the business side of the law, and what’s interesting is I’m actually hired by the school of business. Because the clinic for MBA students and law students and so he represents technically the law side and I’m like on the business side, and but how being a lawyer has made the program very interesting because we’re able to kind of, I’m able to do both, so the experience is really good ‘cause I’m able to talk a lot about the clients I work with and really hopefully inspire some of the students to do something on their own someday or at least consider this working with businesses in the future.

Because the people at their help are very similar to my clients so they’re working with startups and micro enterprises and small businesses and different things, strategic marketing plans to a legal audit to a contract. So it’s a pretty good mix of things going on there.

So I really love it, I love doing it, I didn’t realize how much I would like it but…

Christopher Small:      Yeah, it sounds awesome. Sounds amazing. So, all right, what…

Madhu Singh:              The point of that story is that…

Christopher Small:      What’s the point?

Madhu Singh:              It’s because you’re telling somebody what you’re looking for.

Christopher Small:      Right, yeah, you got to put yourself out there, right? And let people know what you want to do, or no one is going to give you the opportunity to do it, right?

Okay, so let’s talk about, let’s turn this conversation a little bit more to the advice side, all right? So if you had maybe just one or two words of wisdom, maybe lessons that you wish you would have known when you first started your firm that would maybe have helped you out, or maybe just pieces of advice, anything for the listeners, what would they be?

Madhu Singh:              The first bit of advice would be don’t just take anything that walks in the door. Just be very careful because if it’s not your area, just don’t do it, because you will find yourself, your case will go on forever, and it will never leave your table, and there is even now, I did something, a small bit of litigations that I thought I could settle and that was the, in the first like four months of being out there, and it just settled last month.

How many years of that was going on, it’s something that created a lot of anxiety for me, something that I just never like felt confident in because it wasn’t my area.

It’s not something that I had an interest in knowing about it, it was just something that I did for a client that I thought we were both very confident that it would settle and then it took a lot more of a battle, and that’s going to happen.

And so I know people who are like, bankruptcy attorneys, and they’re like, okay, well, I’ll do one family law case. You know, that’s fine but it’s also, it’s one of those things ‘cause you’ll do triple the work, because you don’t know it, so you can’t built for all of that, you’ll have anxiety around it and it just never like turns out as great as you want it to be.

And so, like, my advice is don’t just take things just because someone has asked you to do it. Be very careful about it and be okay with referring it out.

And the other thing will be to build allies and not so much burn bridges with people that you know, in the event you have to fire a client, or you have a negative experience with an opposing council, the more positive you stay, like your reputation is really important to your business. Like you want to have, you don’t want to be known as that attorney that everybody hates, or that everybody hates is the worst on opposing council, or who wrote that horrible contract.

You want to have a good reputation both on your writing and on the way you present yourself to the community, the way you work with you clients ‘cause that serves you well throughout your whole career.

Christopher Small:      Perfect. And I got… well, the great thing about this interviews is that I just get to ask you questions that I like to know about and …

Madhu Singh:              My interview comes at the end, right?

Christopher Small:      That’s right. So I like to think well, you know, I’m pretty heavily involved with social media and with blogging and things like that, and I know that you are too. What is your advice to people about a strategy for using maybe like Twitter and/or Facebook to help people with their law firms?

Because it seems like that… with what I’ve struggled with some times is what, how should I really use this… for my business?

What should I use it for? Should I use it for business generation? Should I just use it for branding and top-of-mind stuff?

What are your thoughts on that? And what are you goals when you’re tweeting and using Facebook and things like that? What do you use it for?

Madhu Singh:              Everything is a tie to business development and what I find is clients who, most of the clients that I feel like are clients I end up working with in the long run, or who convert a little easier, or who turn out to be really good clients, are people who have taken the time to look at more than just my website. And so really what I get the most value from me out of those profiles is the fact that they’re fine profiles and that it looks like I have a presence.

I don’t see people that just go on my website and be like, “oh I just went through your website and called you.” They usually go at least check linkedin or they look at Facebook, they look at some other thing, at least one other thing.

And I can tell ‘because they’ll tell me, I don’t have to ask. You always have to ask where your client came from so you can keep track of what’s working, what’s not. But even today I just met this guy and he told me he saw, he found me on Google and he really liked my linkedin, what I had in my linked in profile. And so, you know, it’s obviously the fact that I know that people look at two things that I feel like everything is part of your business development.

So I don’t think Facebook is the easiest thing to turn into lead generation for law firms because it’s not usually the first place people go to look for a lawyer. Maybe because it’s a professional thing, and I think because of that linked in and maybe even Avvo or Bisnik, to name just a few of those other places where you can have your profile are, I spend a little bit more time on those.

Like, I have Facebook page because mainly for the reason that I come, I’m a social media attorney and I want to be involved in all these different things, and that’s probably my least active one.

Christopher Small:      Right.

Madhu Singh:              I do the most on Twitter, on linkedin, and all these other places and tweeting is about kind of staying in the know, and being part of the conversation, not so much like talking about like yourself.

More like putting out interesting articles or your blog post, or talking about something that’s relevant, but someway tied to law in essence, you know? But also gives you a personality. That shows that you’re really doing something. You don’t have to be like “I’m drinking coffee today.” It’s more like “oh, [Inaudible] Starbucks legal [Inaudible],” you know, something like that.

Christopher Small:      Right. Totally.

Madhu Singh:              That people can realize that you’re doing things out there, you know?

Christopher Small:      Right.

Madhu Singh:              And to me, all of it is part of your business development and marketing strategy. Where you spend your most time is up to you, but those profiles are important because especially with the next generation coming out there, even you and I we probably spend a little bit more research before we hire someone, than we did before, we go to more than just, even when you go to a restaurant, half the time you go looking for [Inaudible] before you even walk into the restaurant.

Christopher Small:      Definitely. Definitely, totally. I can tell you one other thing too, that when I look to hire someone, it’s kind of weird because everyone is so worried like about what their twitter feed will show, or like their Facebook profile will show, but for, in me specifically, and I may just be weird, but when I look at a potential candidate to hire, and they don’t have a Facebook profile, or they aren’t on Twitter, like if I can’t find anything, that actually kind of raises the red flag for me, because, I want the people that are working for me to kind of bee at least aware of that stuff, you know?

To know how to use it. It’s always strange when I can’t find anything about one when I Google them, or something like that. It’s crazy.

Madhu Singh:              It’s interesting that you bring that up, ‘cause when I was looking, when I first hired a contract attorney, one of the specific requirements was leveraging social tools and knowing how to use them. And the number of cover letter that I’ve got that said, “well, you know, when I was in college Facebook came out, so I’m an early adopter of Facebook” was really annoying ‘because that means nothing to me that you’re an early adopter of Facebook.

What I want to know is how do you use those tools to put something out there and start a conversation or talk about something that’s relevant.

And I hired someone that had a really great blog, that understood social media, knew how to write a blog post, and even now it’s been really great because she’s been really on top of it. But it was really like, I think when you’re in law school you just find yourself in this bubble, where you don’t think all of these things matter, and even when meeting with an attorney, I actually met with a KU lawyer yesterday and he’s giving tips on how to find a job, and… if I were in law school and looking for a job I would at least recommend having a good LinkedIn profile.

Christopher Small:      And people are so scared to demonstrate their individuality. That’s what’s going to get you that job, you know, to have an interviewer say “you know what, I have a personal connection to that person because of who they are.”

And if you’re not yourself then that’s not coming through. Lawyers are a dime a dozen…

Christopher Small:      Hi, it’s me again, and I hope you enjoyed the interview. I know when I was doing it with Madhu I had a great time, and really enjoyed it, and I hope you learned a lot from it.

And, once again, you can see that you know, starting a law firm is something that anyone can do, that you can do, that you don’t have to be a criminal defense lawyer or traffic ticket defense lawyer or something like that. You can start your own business law firm, and you can be successful at it.

Before I let you go, I wanted to once again ask you to please, if you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, if you enjoy the podcast in general please go to iTunes and leave a review, it helps to get the podcast ranking on iTunes which gets me in front of more people, so the more people that see this podcast, the more people that can be helped.

So, once again, if you do that I’d really appreciate it. If you have questions or just want to say hi, you can go to lawfirmmarketingmastery.com or you can go to twitter, I’m @csmall and then on Facebook, facebook.com/lawfirmmarketingmastery.

So please go say hi, leave a comment, leave a review, I really appreciate it and if you have a question, if you have a topic for the podcast I’d love to hear them. If you think you might be a good person to be interviewed on the podcast I’d also love to have that as well. So, don’t hesitate, give me a call, give me a buzz, I love to talk to you and see you next week. Thanks. Talk to you soon.